Hi, I'm Gregor. I've been to 17 countries for coding competitions, including two ICPC world finals (judging from my color here, I must have had some really good teammates...). I've never posted here before, but I love this open community, and due to the current situation, I'd like to convey this message to all my Russian friends here:
I'm from Germany. As you will know, eight decades ago, my country, ruled by the nazis, has brought the greatest horrors upon the jewish people and upon the entire world. Adolf Hitler, and countless millions who followed him, fought against the entire world, without any justification other than to gain more territory and power, and committed crimes so cruel and gruesome they go beyond anyone's imagination. Estimated 60 — 80 million people were killed, many more lives around the world were upended. Instead of providing a better future for their children, parents had to bury them. My own great-grandparents fought and died, I presume vicously and full of conviction, on the wrong side in this injust war.
I don't mean to draw any comparison here, the horrors of nazi Germany clearly exceed any scale. I'm adressing this past because we all share a bond through our common history. I'd like to assure you: people in Germany are deeply aware of the great sacrifices the soviet union, including both Russia and Ukraine, made to save the world from these horrors. When the victory over nazi Germany is celebrated in Russia and Ukraine, people in Germany share the joy. Because as citizens from these countries, if we know about our horrible history, we're all on the same side now. We're all on the side that wants to prevent conflict and human suffering. Whenever I meet people abroad, I have no doubt of this.
We've all learned the same lessons from our past. We all know that we're born equal, and that no ethnicity is inferior, no origin is superior. We all know that every human deserves dignity and that no person or group may be treated inhumanely, nowhere, never. We all know to tell right and wrong apart. It is innate to all of us, we only have to listen to our conscience. We all know of the dangers of totalitarianism and fascism, when information is restricted, diverging viewpoints are shut out and every opposition is prosecuted and punished tyrannically. And we all know painfully well that leaders who exploit our worst instincts can lead the world into darkness.
Based on our past, we all understand very clearly that when a leader orders over 150000 soldiers to attack a neighbouring nation in a violent, all-out war, without any sensible reason or justification, it is wrong. When hospitals, schools and universities, kindergardens and theaters are bombed, it is wrong. When women and children are purposely targeted and war crimes are committed in systematic fashion, it is wrong. When community leaders and ordinary citizens are deported, imprisoned or killed, it is wrong. When indiscriminate terror is used as bargaining chip for negotiations, it is wrong. When entire cities are sieged and turned into nothing but rubble and ashes, it is wrong. When all respect for human life is getting lost, it is wrong. In case you're unsure about these facts, please trust me: all of this is happening right now in the center of Europe. Over 10 million people have already fled their homes, according to the United Nations — many of them to the European Union, where I live. When presented with the factual information, no sane mind will have any doubt that this war is a grave crime against humanity.
And it must be stopped. Being aware of our history, we all know this, rationally and deep in our hearts. But it needs to be shouted out loudly and clearly, everywhere and by everyone. We must stop it now.
Never again!
PS: I know this place is about coding. But everything, including the ability to code together internationally or to find good IT jobs, depends on the decisions we take as society. So please don't let anyone tell you that this war shouldn't be discussed — instead, discuss it at home, at work, with your friends or (if you're brave and willing to take the risk) on the streets, everywhere. The quality of all of our lives, and in many cases life itself, depend on it.
PPS: For a more detailed discussion of the facts, please see below: https://mirror.codeforces.com/blog/entry/101055?#comment-897318
PPPS: A small number of people seem to argue that there is some power struggle going on in the world. And that's why Russia has a reason to invade Ukraine, to protect it's own power or similar.
Let me be unmistakably clear: This is why I've written this post. This is the madness, the pure insanity I'm trying to address, the disregard of human life that I'm afraid of. You cannot, never ever, under no circumstances, in no way and in no sense, justify the death and harm of people with the need to enlarge any power. It's simply wrong, and we all know it.
Apart from that, I'd like to assure you: there also is no power struggle, nobody wants to harm Russia in any way. There only is Putin's struggle. He is struggling to keep us in his hostile and cruel past, struggling to prevent the bright future that each and everyone of us deserves. If you do not share this view, then this explanation is for you. This war totally devastates Ukraine, but it is also an unfathomable catastrophe for Russia, Europe and the entire world. It is an abomination that will cause darkness and suffering for all of us. We cannot sit idly by and watch how our world, how all of our lives are getting wrecked. Please, help stop this horror!
Putin=Hitler
I wouldn't do this comparison. The horrors of nazi Germany exceed any scale or measurement, and any such comparison would diminish them. History only teaches us that Putin is on a horrible path.
Seeing that you're from Ukraine: I also in no way mean to understate the devastation he is causing in your country. The loss of life, the destruction, the incredible violence, it is so terrible. I completely understand the anger. If you wish to and this is possible for you in the current situation, please feel free to share your personal experience. People everywhere need to hear it.
it's the same as hitler was doing with Jewish and Gypsy people
nope?at least he wasn't destroying the churches and wasn't really wasting the ammunition on civil houses,but these mf are trying just to destroy everything they see
He still yet to reach Barack Obama or George Bush level, Hitler is far away.
well said bruh
Well Written <3
Russians(who r in favour of invasion) are barbaric. T_T (I know mike will remove this, but I just want to show the world how horrific this war is.)
https://youtu.be/OV0HgDRw2co
https://youtu.be/Mb3_R__r7Go
The russian *troops, you imbecile.
Please be careful with such generalizations. I can understand the anger, but we must not give in to these instincts. Think of Alexej Nawalny and the tens of thousands of brave Russians who took to the streets at significant personal risk. Think of all the decent Russians here on codeforces, who speak up strongly against this war.
They have my admiration, they deserve our support! All the people who have learned from our history must stand together now.
Its their long time history. Do you forgot the liberation of germany during wwII? What they did to german women. (You may say that was soviet union but russia was the biggest part of it). I know some russians are protesting against the war but also many are in favour of the invasion. The comment was for them. Yesterday, a live conference was held in russia by putin, and many civillian joined and stadium was fully occupied. This means many are with the invasion.
Another correction :) ! many civilians were forcefully dragged there. The rally was either filled with people that can't speak up against these actions due to fear of emprisonment, or truly misinformed people. As in WW2, the people that were pro-nazi were only 1-10%, the great majority just """following the trend"""
Who are you, stranger ?
Who are you, stranger, to think that I asked?
YouKn0wWho
No, I don't know who asked, that is why I am asking smh
I downvoted you and it decreased your contribution from -45 to -46
You two are so funny.
My wishes for the war is for it to end sooner than later.
As we are able to talk about war here, there is a war that has been around for 74 Years in Palestine I wish for it to be put in the spot light as well.
I have received the following message, and I would like to respond:
I do not trust you because you try to make others see only one side of the ukrainian issue. You do not provide facts about neo-nazis in ukraine, you do not provide facts about killed citizens at donbas region, you do not provide facts about human shields of ukrainian forces and so on, and so on. Shame on you!
First, it is reasonable not to trust a stranger on the internet :) And it's great that you address this: let's discuss the facts to see what is true.
The bad news is: There may well be neo-nazis in Ukraine. Unfortunately, there are some neo-nazis almost everywhere. A party with affinity towards neo-nazis holds 10% in the German parliament (90% strongly reject it). Certain presidential contenders in France share at least part of this ideology. There are some neo-nazis in many countries in Asia and in South America. And let's not even talk about the US. You can find an overview here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism So you can for virtually every country, including Russia, find images of neo-nazis being active there, and there is always some truth to it.
But the critical distinction is: these are not representative of society. They hold no significant power. They don't influence culture. They are bound by the laws of each country, by the judicial systems, by the humanitarian principles enforced by the overwhelming majority of society. And in Ukraine in particular, they cannot serve as pretext for this war. Ukrainian people fought against nazi Germany in the second world war. Some of the biggest battles against the Germans took place there. The last time that air-raid sirens went on in Kyiv, I believe, was when the German army encircled the city in 1941. President Zelenskyy himself is Jewish, multiple of his ancestors were killed in the holocaust. The horrors of nazism are commemorated all around Ukraine. And the constitution and laws in Ukraine, and the way they are enforced, generally adhere to the principles of human rights. That's why the argument that neo-nazis are a threat in Ukraine is absurd. And even more absurd would be to bomb the entire country in consequence.
With regard to the other points, so that we do not get lost in details, please let me just point out the following (but please feel free to comment if questions remain or you have a different view):
The international court of justice has ruled that no genocide of any kind has been taking place in Ukraine and has ordered Russia to stop the war of aggression immediately.
And the United Nations general assembly has demanded that Russia "immediately, completely and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces from the territory of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders." The vote on this resolution was 141 — 5. Only five countries voted against it: Russia, Belarus, North Korea, Syria, Eritrea. (See here: https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1113152)
So even though, of course, this is my personal perspective, I've done my best to stay neutral in my post. Neutral observers all around the world demand that the Russian military cease it's aggression. There is no sensible justification for this war. I hope you don't expect me to mention arguments that I know to be unfounded and false.
In case you've been presented with different 'facts' in Russian state-controlled media or by people who share their content and beliefs, and you're not sure what to trust, there is a simple experiment you can do. Go to any public place and hold up a sign that reads 'Putin must go!'. I've done this mulitple times in my hometown in Munich, addressing a ruling German party. If you cannot do this without facing repercussions, if this is strongly discouraged in your society, then — I'm very sorry — it indicates that your leader has a great amount of control over the information that is exchanged. It means that not the best and most sensible argument will win, as judged by the people, but instead only the arguments that suit the leader will be visible. Please don't fall for Putin's propaganda.
Is gnomina bothering you in private messages?
xD
There are Nazis in every country. In most of those countries they are marginals. In most countries, but not in Ukraine.
So called Azov batallion and a few other military units are officially a part of Ukrainian military forces. They use Nazi and SS symbolic and don't even hide it. According to Wiki, Azov is a right-wing extremist, neo-Nazi, formerly paramilitary unit of the National Guard of Ukraine.
They supposed to be volunteer militia, but they posses heavy guns and vehicles, which only regular army should possess.
They look as Nazis, but what's more they also behave as Nazis.
Ukrainian army has been killing civilians in the Donbass region since 2014.
For example, this UN monitoring mission report shows, that from 1 January 2017 to 15 September 2020 Donbass suffered almost a thousand of civilian casualties, most of them were in Donetsk, and most of them from shelling. About 14000 both military and civilian people died in total since 2014.
Western media tell you that Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb 24, but they completely ignore the fact that Ukraine started fiercely shelling both military and civilian Donbass objects a week before then, probably preparing an invasion. OSCE Special Monitoring Mission had been counting many hundreds of ceasefire violations and explosions on daily basis since Feb 18, in both Donetsk and Luhansk. Soon, SMM decided to leave the area.
Note, that according to the Minsk II agreements, Ukraine must keep all heavy guns out of the 70 km security zone. In order to be able to shoot at Donbass, Ukraine violated the agreements.
P.S. Despite my black nickname, I'm no longer part of the CF team. I left it many years ago. The writing consists only of pure facts and my personal opinion.
It's a lie. Ukraine did not violate the agreement on the withdrawal of heavy weapons and always gave full access to the OSCE mission to control this.
It's not just a lie. This is disgusting, deceitful, dirty bullshit. Shame on you. Russia has brought a huge group of troops to our borders, including on the territory of Belarus, since December 2021. Already in January, all insiders and intelligence publicly confirmed that the decision on Russian aggression against Ukraine had already been made. Even in the link that you threw off, it is said that it was the Ukrainian positions that were shelled and the terrorists restricted the movement of the OSCE mission. Hell, it doesn't even make the slightest bit of logic for Ukraine to attack when the entire Russian army is here. Or these two trash fakes were not enough to understand that Russia tries to create Casus belli? Where is your conscience that you are so brazenly trying to lie?
In the war unleashed by Russia. Should I remind you of the so-called "Russian spring"? Should I remind you about Girkin and his gang? About thousands of Russian bots in Ukrainian cities VKontakte groups? Russian weapons, Russian tanks, Russian money, tens of thousands of so-called "Russian voluntary fighters" and "ih-tam-nets", Russian media with "crucified boys". Of the downed MH17 plane? Of Mariupol, Volnovakha and Debaltseve shelled in 2015 by russian forces? And after Russia is now destroying Ukrainian cities, with the number of victims in 3 weeks already SEVERAL TIMES HIGHER than numbers provided by you in 3 years, you still dare to blame Ukraine for something? Right now this the same Russia and same Russian government that destroyed the Donbass 8 years ago, using its inhabitants as cannon fodder for their TV reports, and turning our powerful industrial region into a rotting bloody wound on the body of Ukraine.
They are less Nazi than any Russian scumbag who demonstrates the letter Z, magnifies the superiority of the "Russian race" and calls to destroy everything Ukrainian in Ukraine, to hang Ukrainians in the center of Kyiv, to the so-called "liberation" of the Baltic states, Poland and Europe, to the nuclear bombing of the United States and other shit. They do it openly, including on Russian state TV, and no one punishes them for it. That's what a real Nazi is.
And you also forgot about the open Nazis Milchakov and Raevsky (2) as commanders, who fought on the side of Russia, who returned to Russia after that, one later went to fight in Syria, and the second tried to become a deputy in Russia. So what about Nazism? The Slavic Union, Russian National Unity, Russian Imperial Movement, Sputnik and Pogrom, and other far-right Russian organizations and movements, all of them participated in the war against Ukraine in the Donbas. Yes, some of them were persecuted in Russia before, but only because they criticized Putin. Russia praised all the rest and NOT ONE was condemned for the murder of Ukrainians in Ukraine.
The people who founded Azov are not angels, they have right-wing radical views, but propaganda of Nazism is now prohibited by law in Ukraine. They have no political representation or power in government that could translate any of their ideas into the reality of state policy. And after all, they protect our country when Russia threatens to destroy it.
They are less Nazi than any Russian scumbag who demonstrates the letter Z, magnifies the superiority of the "Russian race" and calls to destroy everything Ukrainian in Ukraine, to hang Ukrainians in the center of Kyiv, to the so-called "liberation" of the Baltic states, Poland and Europe, to the nuclear bombing of the United States and other shit. They do it openly, including on Russian state TV, and no one punishes them for it. That's what a real Nazi is.
What the nonsense are you telling??? As a Russian civilian I never heard about that even on a propaganda TV. Who is under propaganda now?
Im so surprised that a lot of people even not trying to find the truth, thinking about different points of view.
This war is just because of economical reasons, like WWI or WWII. Not because of Putin = Hitler or similar West-countries propaganda. Russia just want to make Ukraine its sphere of influence. And im definetely against it!
This one I saw already after wrote my message: https://twitter.com/FreelFreel/status/1506191132933373952
And that is "60 Minutes" — one of the most popular political talk shows on Russian state TV.
Do I need to submit a huge pile of Zhirinovsky's statements? I will just give a link to the latest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5ujMCnh8Rk You can say that he is a clown of Russian politics. But this clown is the leader of a political party that is stable in the Duma and in local authorities.
The next is the words of Surkov, former Assistant to the President of the Russian Federation. 2020. So overfilled with respect for Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity:
“Ukraine does not exist. There is Ukrainianism. That is, a specific mental disorder. Surprisingly brought to the extreme degree passion for ethnography. Such bloody lore. A confusion instead of the state,” said Surkov. Speaking about the prospects of Ukraine, the politician stressed that he is a “ukro-optimist” and believes that “Ukraine does not exist yet, but over time it will still be.” “However, what kind of Ukraine it will be, within what borders it will exist, and even, maybe, how many Ukraines there will be are open questions,” Surkov added, noting that Russia will have to participate in resolving these issues one way or another.
Vice Speaker of the State Duma, deputy Pyotr Tolstoy "believes that Ukrainians and Russians are one people, but the Ukrainian government needs to be "hanged on lanterns", and "Ukraine is part of great Russia" This is 09.07.2021
Anton Krasovsky, journalist or director of RT in Jan 2022: "we will burn your constitution together with you on Khreshchatyk"
And these are just the fresh quotes that I have on top of my mind. And this is what was, so to speak, documented. And how many similar things have been since 2013 there? If I start searching and rummaging through this dirt now, I will only waste my time senselessly.
I will answer.
Well, let's start with the fact that until 2014, the Donbass in Ukraine felt very good. High wages, a huge number of industrial enterprises, a lot of investment, a large logistics center, football, and so on. Then Donbass was destroyed by two things. This is the proclamation of the so-called republics, which cut off the economy of the region from Ukraine, and secondly, hostilities, or, more simply, war.
Both things are naturally inseparable, and all this was initiated and fueled by Russia. It all started with riots under Russian flags and the capture of Slavyansk and Kramatorsk by gangs of Russians under the leadership of the Russian Girkin. Then thousands of so-called "volunteers" and "vacationers" militants poured in from the Russian side, as well as Russian citizens who were openly in the leadership of the so-called republics.
During the summer of 2014, when the Ukrainian army gathered and began to act more decisively, the territory controlled by terrorists noticeably decreased, the Ukrainian army was in the suburbs of regional centers and the whole war, along with human casualties, could soon end, Russia decided to send in regular troops to protect the terrorists and consolidate the existence of the unrecognized republics and, consequently, war and tension for years to come. In order not to be unfounded at this point, there are many different confirmations, captured Russian paratroopers, a huge number of photos of exclusively Russian equipment, graves of Russian soldiers who died in August “unknown where”, cynical shelling from Russian territory on Ukrainian armed forces that controlled the border areas (here is a meticulous investigation with satellite images, geolocations and video evidence). Well, like a cherry on the cake, this was not once openly confirmed in an interviews and posts by the terrorists themselves, here is a quote from Zhuchkovsky directly from Russian Wikipedia:
Over the summer of 2014, everything happened literally as Strelkov predicted: militia units were almost crushed, cut off from the Russian border, in Hundreds of thousands of refugees poured into the Russian Federation, Zhuchkovsky writes. — And Russia still had to send troops, albeit unofficially. If Moscow did this at the end of June — beginning of July, then Slavyansk would still be under the Russian flag.
Without Russian support, the militia would not have survived until the autumn. The long-awaited help came only in mid-August. Shortly before this, on August 15, Igor Strelkov was forced to leave the Donbass — apparently, this was one of the conditions for military assistance from the Russian Federation.
It was not customary to talk about this help directly, so as not to "expose Russia to the West." However, this was not a secret for anyone in the world, and the participants in the Donbass war over time directly or indirectly recognized the participation of Russian troops in the war.
Then there was the Ilovaisk cauldron, the complete seizure of the border, the first Minsk agreements and endless deliveries of volunteer fighters and weapons from Russia, which the terrorists themselves called the “north wind” or “military trade” on social networks.
Then another escalation of hostilities, where the terrorists are already attacking and again with the help of the Russian army, the capture of Shirokino, an attempt to storm Mariupol , the occupation of the city of Debaltseve, an important railway junction between Lugansk and Donetsk.
Then the ruble zone, the unrecognized republics with their destroyed industries and no banking structure of their own before, suddenly had enough Russian rubles to make it the main currency.
And so on.
Result: 20% of the Ukrainian economy was destroyed, Donbass is a bloody wound on the body of Ukraine. Where satisfied Kremlin cannibals "poke with a stick" to blackmail and curb the development of Ukraine.
How does TV kill? Well, if Russian television has been cultivating hatred towards Ukraine since the end of 2013, with streams of lies and fake reports, portraying us as some kind of devils, then in the end, Russians willingly go to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians. Like 8 years ago, so now. So it goes.
Have you even fully read the reports you are citing? Daily Report 38/2022 of the Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine, 18 February 2022, page 8:
On the side controlled by the Ukrainian government, the mission only spotted one illegally placed surface-to-air missile system. These are designed to be launched from the ground to destroy aircraft or other missiles, not to shell civilians.
Your writing consists only of pure propaganda and lies.
From your Wikipedia link about the Azov batallion:
Even if we assume that this Group would have 1.000-3.000 members and that all of those would be the worst neo-nazis imaginable, what does that say about the other > 40.000.000 people of Ukraine?
I admit I don't know much about recent or any history in Donbas, but I imagine it's not as simple or one-sided as it sounds in your comment.
I'm not sure if you think what you wrote is sufficient justification for Putin's actions or if you just wanted to highlight disagreement about a small part of Gregory's position. I think it's quite obvious that the destruction, pain and suffering we have to observe these days is way out of proportion. Millions of people have lost their homes, millions are fleeing across Europe, lots of people have lost their lives and many more will. All of this will cause deep wounds for generations to come. We live in sad times.
I agree with you, that my message is probably one-sided, but it is already the other side. You can compare various pieces of information and make your own opinion.
Many people are trying to demonize Russia. They say Ukraine is innocent. I'm just showing it's only a half of the puzzle.
Every sane person should be against any war, not against the chosen one.
Is that reasonable to kill those people to save these people? Well, I have no answer for you.
The Azov batallion is just one of many. It is the most known and have its own Wiki page. There are also Aidar, Donbass, etc. It's roughly 5-10% of all Ukrainian military forces.
Later, Aidar became the 24th Separate Assault Battalion "Aidar", but most of the people remained there. It uses "З нами Бог" ("God with us", originally German and later Nazi's "Gott mit uns") as its motto. Wiki says, that "on 8 September 2014 Amnesty International claimed that the Battalion had committed war crimes, including abductions, unlawful detention, ill-treatment, theft, extortion, and possible executions."
I truly don't understand your position. How can you claim that "every sane person should be against any war", and in the next second wonder if it still might be a good idea "to kill those people"?
Please take a step back and think about what you're saying.
This is not a simple conflict where you can just point and say "but there's bad people on the other side, too!". Putin decided to escalate the problem by multiple magnitudes.
If anyone is truly saved because of this war, it is a rounding error compared to the millions who are suffering from it.
I didn't mean it's a good idea to kill people. You read, what you wanted to read.
You're missing the main thing.
Russia didn't start, but took part in the already ongoing war in order to finally end it.
It is a retaliation strike to save Donbass people and to punish the Nazi murderers and the government, those batallions are officially supported by.
Russian army is trying to avoid civilian casualties at all cost. Most of the civilian deaths are caused by so called defenders of Ukraine, who are preventing people from escape. They shoot at the cars leaving cities. People must stay and serve as a living shield for them, because Ukrainian army has no chance to stand against Russian in a fair fight.
There are many interviews with the refugees proving that. It is not the Russian propaganda. YouTube is full of that.
Russian army also give people food in the controlled areas to prevent humanitarian crisis.
You could easily find a lot of proofs on YouTube, if you knew Russian.
After seeing russian bots screaming on twitter about "5 ukrainian saboteurs" for days with only evidence as a 30 second video where a guy is shooting tracers (wtf???) and then falls down I am ashamed that I ever believed a gram of Putin's propaganda. You legit have to be 90 iq to believe any of this garbage. (But I agree it is not right to force men to stay in ukraine and prevent them from fleeing a literal war.)
Are you really trying to deny that Putin started the war with invasion of crimea by unmarked soldiers?
Crimean annexation had popular support. Just look at this Pew Research Survey. 88% crimeans supported the referendum for annexing crimea to russia. Pew research certainly is not a russian propaganda machine. Many people who dont support crimean annexation call for taiwanese independence which is contradictory as both have popular support.
Crimean annexation sort of halted Ukraine's Nato membership as being Nato member means you can not have territorial disputes. Though nato never ruled out the possibility and america is known for breaking rules. It is not clear why russia decided to escalated the war that has been going on since 2014 significantly. Most neutral experts believed that full scale invasion will not happen but it happened anyway. Unfortunately we will not know much until the war ends. Until then both side will spread propaganda and media in both side will act as their propaganda machine like it happened in all previous or happening on other ongoing wars.
After checking you link, I see that the poll question was not about the support of annexation. It was formulated as "Should the government in Kyiv recognize the results of the referendum in Crimea?".
Reading between the lines, we can see that this question can be interpreted as "Should the government in Kyiv refrain from using military force to challenge the annexation of Crimea?". My guess is that the residents of Crimea probably were not very enthusiastic about turning Crimea into a warzone, regardless of what was their opinion about the annexation itself.
"Are you happy about the annexation?" would be an entirely different question.
Here you go. 12% crimean thinks Ukraine should be united 54% wants secede 34% not sure. At least nine-in-ten have confidence in Putin (93%) and say Russia is playing a positive role in Crimea (92%).Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th referendum was free and fair (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to recognize the results of the vote (88%) where 96% voted for joining Russia.
You do notice how you have now yourself invalidated this 'referendum'? How can the referendum show 96% (!) for secession, while the survey you yourself deemed trustworthy shows 54%? 96% on one day, but 54% on the other, on perhaps the most consequential question to their future these people will ever make?
In a free and democratic vote, I doubt you could get 96% support even for the most obvious stuff, such as, "Do you believe that earth rotates around the sun?" It could just as well have been 99.99% or 120% support. These are North Korea style numbers, where the Kim dictator dynasty is always approved with 100% vote share and 99.99% turnout. I hope nobody will insinuate that such popular support for Kim is realistic because people in North Korea are simply strongly pro-famine, because they are passionate about the opportunities they get in gruesome mass internment camps all around the country, and because they generally enjoy their life under an abominable terror regime as reported independently by the UN.
(EDIT: Sorry for getting a bit carried away here)
You don't make sense. Your judgement is based on assumption not on facts. Not everyone will vote and the numbers are not collected on same time so it will not be same. People who were "not sure" have most like followed the trend. Numbers are taken from Pew Research not based on some assumption on other country like you did. Not everyone votes so numbers will give you rough idea not complete accurate picture of the scene. If you count who were sure about secede and not sure they make up 88%.
There is no reason that 96% people cant support a single cause specially when crisis happens in a very deeply divided society. Look at their election map you will see big difference between east and west. North korea is irrelevent here.
If you look at the map the president who was ousted by violent coup was very popular in east Ukraine and same for crimea(couldn't find exact number) and he was extremely unpopular at western ukraine during election. So when the president crimeans elected got couped they didn't like being part of that country.It just shows you how divided the country is.
Here is an washigton post article about division between east and west
Oh yeah... on one of the most important decisions of the future of their homeland, voting for something which is supposedly "the cause of war"... EVERY SINGLE PERSON who was "not sure" decided "YES I'M SURE NOW GUYS" and voted for annexation (which is strongly distinct from secession and is a subset).
"GUYS THEY VOTED FOR IT 96% EVEN THOUGH ONLY 54% SUPPORTED SECESSION (NOT EVEN ANNEXATION) ITS LEGIT TRUST ME BRO ITS NOT LIKE THE RUSSIAN SOLDIERS RUNNING THE SHOW HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT"
Who actually believes this absolute garbage?
Propaganda authors these days think everyone is a drooling idiot. It's insulting. It's as if they tried to spit at me.
But that's also not related to the point I wanted to make with this post. Let's not fight too ferociously about this. The point that matters is: human life is precious. It should not be simply given away. And you cannot, never ever, under no circumstances, in no way and in no form, justify the death and harm of people with the need to gain more territory or power. It's simply wrong, and we all know it. No matter what we think about the events leading up to this — Ukrainians (and they have the best information here) will disagree, but I can understand that this is no straightforward black-and-white matter for many people in Russia — I hope that we can agree that this war is wrong. And it must stop. This war is a black and white matter. You cannot use any events from 2014, no matter how you view them, to justify a horrible war that is taking place now. You cannot justify people losing their homes, their loved ones, their lives today with anything that took place years earlier.
Not every single person who were not sure voted for leave. It is a complex system. When crisis happens most people just follow the trend. You can see that now if you look clearly. One example is have you seen the american poll about creating NFZ(no fly zone) in Ukraine . NFZ means there will be most likely third world war and a nuclear war but most american support(74%) it because they don't understand those in depth. The crisis is not affecting americans significantly still people just following the trend without any research on what NFZ means.
Before 2014 Eastern part of Ukraine identified with russia a lot, they speak the same language and there was significant cultural and personal ties with Russia. There was a big political division between their western part too. Russia and Ukraine were part of same country for long time. Considering ties it is not that hard to see why they would support joining Russia specially considering Russia was and still is a lot more economically developed than Ukraine. It has changed in recent years btw.
Thing is it is very complex topic and I can't explain everything in details specially when a significant number of people see everything as black and white. So I simplify a lot of things or it will be very big and no one gonna read it nor do I want write that much and hope I will not write about this topic again. I realized political conversations are very irritating and hope next time I see a political topic I ignore that.
Yep. I hate propagandists.
Confusing national identity with language proficiency is a big mistake. Putin apparently made this mistake too.
For example, you are speaking English language. Therefore, you (or the people from the former British colonies if you aren't one of them) must be dreaming about the restoration of the British Empire and want to be "liberated" by their bombers. Does this make any sense? Just think about it.
If you feel insulted, then it's good. Because this might help you to understand why the Russian speakers from Eastern Ukraine (many of them are bilingual and can speak both Ukrainian and Russian) are fighting to defend themselves from the Russian invaders.
That's very scary... Scary that your comment somehow has positive contribution value. I would rather call a Nazi the one who destroys cities and kills civilians, than the one who uses some symbols that might even have dual meaning.
P.S. Symbol Z for Ukrainians means only horror, but it's being used by thousands of russians. I think russia needs deZtification
Honestly it's so sad that you were inactive on CF for 9 years and now you came from nowhere and tried to abuse your black color nickname to spread propaganda.
You're talking about nazis, but not talking about fascists. There are fascists in every country. In most of those countries they are marginals. In most countries, but not in Russia because Russian government is fascist.
Let's look at the definition of fascism by Ian Kershaw:
Hypernationalism — of course, yes. Russian TV many years translates that Ukrainian nation is synthetic, even Putin said that. And there are very few activity for minor nations in such multicultural country as the Russian Federation
Racial exclusiveness — probably, yes. Russian media translates antipathy towards BLM, LGBT and other minorities. There are many social problems that affects Caucasian and Central Asian people.
Complete destruction of political enemies — thrice yes. Khodorkovskiy, Nemtsov, Navalny. There is only two ideologies of official political parties in Russia — fascism (Единая Россия, ЛДПР, Справедливая Россия, etc.) and communism (КПРФ, Коммунисты России). And none of liberal, pro-democratic, libertarian and other ideologies.
An emphasis on discipline, manliness and militarism — Chechnya, South Ossetia, Donbass, Syria, Ukraine. And terrifying parades on May 9.
Irredentist or imperialist goals — I think, you get it on your own.
So, we can note that Russian government is fascist. According to your message, lack of restrictions for nazis is an argument to start a war. Is lack of restrictions for fascists is an argument too? Maybe, NATO should start the invasion into Russian Federation for destruction of Putin's regime? Or China? Or whole world?
Note, that according to the Budapest Memorandum Russia mustn't support the annexation of Crimea and separatists in Donbas. And, of course, Russia mustn't go to war with Ukraine.
At the current moment Putin kills hundreds of Ukrainians. He is the main evil nowadays, not Ukrainians nazi-soldiers in Donbass or American government during the Iraq War.
P.S. Despite my black nickname, I'm no longer part of the CF team. I left it many years ago. The writing consists only of pure facts and my personal opinion.
surely there are a lot of people with disgusting political views in Ukraine. And yes, some of them were endorsed by ukrainian government and even influenced some of its decisions.
Can this justify bombing the hell out of all ukrainian cities, killing civilians? In my opinion — no it can't. If anything, such actions can (and will) only increase, not decrease, the number of people with said views. It's insane to think that you can achieve goals declared by russian government (something something denazification, neutral status, etc) using such "methods".
Not only that. They were shelling Donbass people, and that was the main reason.
No, I can't. But you are a bit misinformed about that.
If you really want to learn more about, how Russian army is acting in Ukraine, you should check the following links.
Graham Phillips. Russian soldiers give food (RU with EN subtitles) to the people in Gorsk. People are friendly.
Russian Ministry of Defence. Humanitarian aid (RU) in Melitopol. People are content or calm.
Crimea Inform. Humanitarian aid (RU) in Kherson. People are not that friendly. Some of them tried to provoke Russian soldiers. You wouldn't do anything like that, if you knew that the soldiers would shoot back. Just imagine a pro-Russian meeting in Kyiv.
Coach Red Pill. Describes the Russian tactics (EN) and how it helps avoiding civilian casualties. He was in Kyiv then.
An interview (RU) with a refugee from Mariupol. She told that Azov intentionally destroyed the Drama theatre before retreating. The Ukrainian officials said Russians bombed it.
Another interview (RU) with a citizen of Volnovakha (to the north of Mariupol). He says Ukrainian soldiers were hiding in the village amongst civilian people. Later Ukrainian tanks were intentionally shooting at his village. About a week ago the Ukrainian side didn't let people to escape from Mariupol, because "Russian are shelling Volnovakha".
One more (RU, 18+) with a few citizens of Rubezhnoye. A man said the Ukrainian army intentionally shot at school and other buildings, where civilian people were hiding. A woman then swore at Ukrainian government. Another man said he was trying to escape, and Ukrainians shot at him.
Once again.
Yes Russia is wrong. That's right.
But have you ever noticed what the NATO did before this terrible war? And what the USA did before?
You're neutral, but actually not enough.
Russia and NATO have conflicting interests,that'all.We can't say who's wrong.Different positions lead to different results.
Hi Bidanets. Welcome to this comment section!
My aspiration here has been to make a personal plea for humanity, and to give room for an exchange of opinions on the war this is going on right now. This is a brutal war where people are being killed every hour. And it is a war that concerns many coders greatly, I would say more than anything else right now, which I believe has become visible by the reactions, by the emotional pleas of our numerous Ukrainian friends here. So I hope that through discussion of the matters at hand we can all gain a better understanding of the events that are occurring and learn to appreciate also the arguments that people with a different perspective may have. This is probably what is most important at times of war — to listen to the other side.
You clearly seem to be discontent with this approach. Could you please elaborate which part of this post in particular you disagree with? Then we can both look into it and perhaps come to more similar viewpoints.
In case you are referring to my overall message that human life is precious and that people should not be killed as 'European propaganda', then I shall from this point forward live on as a proud and passionate European propagandist.
Alright. I think the above comment and subsequent discussions illustrate the relevant arguments for both sides quite well, there is little to add. Everybody should arrive at his/her own conclusions. I only ask of you, in the end, to take a moment and ponder if you really deem necessary the incredible loss of life that we are witnessing right now.
I don't know how propaganda affects your brain so much, but I will say. For eight years, Ukraine has not responded to fire from the Russians since signing the Minsk Agreements. Russia, as a state that does not take into account international opinion, immediately violated these agreements, and Ukraine, as a democratic state, had to sit and remain silent. In fact, their hands were tied. As for eight years of shelling, look at what the "Russian world" has done in a few days in Mariupol. And look what another good place Donbass seems to be against Mariupol. The truth is, don't distort the facts, and you know it, you just don't want to admit it. Read the story better and please don't write nonsense about "where you were for eight years". P.S. Sorry for bad English.
Two points here:
First of all, I'm not 'Germany', I'm just a coder from Germany. Opinions of German people are diverse, I certainly do not represent everybody.
Secondly, as much as I would like to, I'm afraid it would be entirely impossible for me to dishonor Putin. He has already dishonored himself to the maximum amount possible.
Hello, Gregor! I don't wanna argue with you and try to convince in my point. I just have a request for you and everyone else who is speaking about this topic.
Historical things are going on. We will see truth after many years, if see at all. No one have full information now, so, if you decided to make a comment — please, spend many time to analyze the situation. Look at history, both Russian-Ukrainian and worldwide (i mean mainly after fail of USSR), look at different point of views, even if they are not pleasant for you. I am supporting Russia, and i am looking on Ukrainian and American/European Medias too, to make a picture for myself.
Ask yourself, what is the interest of every player (i mean mostly Russia, Ukraine and US/NATO). What can be results for every player after different results of war. Ask yourself, to which results every action of them leads. Analyze arguments from every side. Don't use stereotypes like angry Putin, please, they are totally incorrect — think about all sides in terms of motivation and logic. Remember — it is not the first war in 21 century, and i am sure that not the last, so don't let emotions beat your calm brain, both now and later.
I am okay if the answers you will get will be different from mine. But any possible answer is much more complex then "He is struggling to keep us in his past, struggling to destroy the bright future that each and everyone of us deserves." — it is emotions and populism, not an answer. We, Russians, who are supporting our army, are not maniacs/rasists/victims of propaganda — in Russia we can hear like polar points of view in services like Youtube. Emotions are the thing which are very affected by propaganda of each side, so please, think rationally.
If i will convince at least one person to look into history deeper and from the different sides, i will be really happy.
Hi gnomina007! First of all, thank you for writing this friendly text. It is important now more than ever that we address each other in a civilized manner, like you have done just now.
You do not want to argue, I can understand you well — but in the way you describe the motives, I am afraid I could not resist to write another post, which has gotten quite long. Because maybe there is a chance, while we strongly seem to disagree about the facts, that we can find more common ground regarding the motives of each player. I want to tell you about my motives first, and the motives of people all around me in Germany.
I really like Russia! I've had the chance to visit Moscow twice and have met so many wonderful people. It's not just me, this is a broad sentiment in Germany. Speaking of history, you will without doubt know that Eastern Germany has been part of to the Soviet Union until 1990 (Note from StarCuriosity: socialist bloc, not Soviet Union). Many people in Germany speak Russian. We cherish Soviet and Russian technological discoveries, we celebrate the anniversary when Juri Gagarin went to space. And boy, I can't even tell you how impressed people in my peer group are of Russian competitive programming performance! These are just a few examples.
It is not just the people. It is our government as well. They prioritize trade almost above everything else. You cannot imagine how hard it is for our government right now to impose sanctions on Russia, how hesitant they are. Their motivation is quite simple: a good economy makes people happy and will help them at their next election. If the Russian economy is doing well, this will be good for the German economy as well. This is not a zero-sum game, but quite the opposite actually. Through collaboration, we all win. Your success is our success, too. And it is not just the German government that acts this way, either. This is how people and politicians all over Europe feel. Even for Ukraine, I believe Russia has been the biggest and most important trading partner. And in many other parts of the world, this holds true as well. So please, let me assure you unequivocally, in case there is even a shred of doubt: we don't want to fight against Russia. We don't want to damage your economy. We also don't want to be superior in any way, we don't want to hold leverage over Russia. All we want for Russia is to prosper and for Russian people to have a good life and a bright future. This is in the interest of German people, and in the interest of German governing parties, and in the interest of all of Europe and to a large extent in the interest of the US as well.
We also don't want Russia to take control over us, I hope you will understand. Just like we don't want the US to take control over us, but they are not attempting it. And we absolutly don't want a war in Europe. This is why there are sanctions now. This is why we are part of NATO. This is why we are increasing our military budget. We absolutly don't want that, really nobody wants that in Germany. It only happens because we currently see a direct threat aimed at us and our freedom.
So when you're asking for motivation: why is there a threat, why can't we just get along with each other peacefully and in prosperity? Why can't we simply strive to provide a good life for everybody? Wouldn't that be in everybodies interest? Who wouldn't share this motivation?
Would German people like that? Absolutely, yes! Would German government like that? Yes, they would in fact be totally addicted to Russian trade and investment opportunities. Would the Russian people like that? You can speak to this better, but I do believe so. Who is left? Putin. Please let me explain why I think he has different interests. First of all, this is of course conventional wisdom, but relevant nevertheless: he is a former KGB agent, and he is still living like nothing has changed in the past 30 years. He is still acting like we are in times of the cold war, when Russia and the US have been threatening each other. He now wants to rebuild some form of Soviet Union by all means, to rule over the territories all around Russia. He wants to reclaim former Soviet states that are now independent, that have taken control over their own destinies. He apparently sees this as his historic obligation. How do we know this? Because he has told us so pretty directly, stating that Ukraine is not an independent country. And he is not simply attacking the eastern part of Ukraine, where there are alleged crimes against Russians, but instead he is sieging Kyiv as his primary target. His motive is obviously to take control over the entire country.
And there is a lot of indication that he is fearful. I'm really not saying this to be mean or anything. Like a KGB agent, he is on his own and trusts nobody. He has become much more isolated over the past two covid years. He is outright paranoid now, have you only seen how far away people have to sit from him so that he will by no chance catch covid or who knows what else he fears from them? Like here, here, here, here or here. This is not normal behavior! This is not a stereotype or populist argument. His visitors have even all taken covid tests beforehand. He must be full of fear in this otherwise peaceful world. And sadly, I believe Putin is enforcing his worldview on the people in Russia. Throught laws that threaten harsh sentences for minor crimes or no crimes at all (see: calling a war a war), but also through a media that will always depict the outside world as a threat. Isn't this correct, aren't NATO and neo-nazis and so on not often presented as a threat to Russia? These threats don't exist. Nobody has any motivation to threaten Russia. Russia is becoming a dark and isolated place in a bright world, because of his wrong understanding of reality.
This is why he must be failing to realize that the world does not consist mostly of adversaries anymore. Times have changed. Internet is now wildly distributed and connects us all. People everywhere realize how much they are alike, how well they can work together. Just like we do here on Codeforces. Aren't we a great community? We have a global economy that is (or was, until last month...) deeply interconnected. Countries have no motivation anymore to harm each other, they only have a motivation to work together. There really is no reason for this fear.
In summary, this is the issue that seems to be at the core here: former Soviet states, and countries all around the world in general, want to decide their own fate. They don't want to be controlled by anybody else. And this can work out — and is working out — very well in most places, particularly in Europe. Putin meanwhile, fearful and from a different time, fails to notice this. He sees everybodies else's harm as his own win. He wants to reestablish some Soviet empire, keep states nearby under his control, and is doing so with incredible violence, with no regard to the interests that people in his 'colonies' have, and with no regard to their lives. Because he feels like this is necessary for Russia, while in fact it is only necessary for his own historic ambitions. It does not bring people in Russia any prosperity, it does instead harm everybody. It completely devastates Ukraine, but it also harms Russia, Europe, and the entire world.
This is why I felt compelled to write my post: This conquest can bring nothing but death and destrucion, endless devastation and hate for generations. There is no sensible reason for it. There is no rational motivation, it's bad for everybody. It is caused by a single actor who is out of touch with reality and acting irrationally.
What an interesting historical fact! Just a hint: The Soviet Union, the Warsaw Pact Organization, Council for Mutual Economic Assistance and the Socialist Bloc are all slightly different things.
Good point — I'm definitely too young! But as you say, there was a alignment into 'blocks', and Eastern Germany was part of the soviet block.
And actually, this illustrates quite well how this past division into blocks does not play a role anymore for todays politics, at least outside of Russia. Going so far that I don't even know this properly. I can tell you, this also doesn't play a role for our government, there is no motivation here to think in blocks. Only the cultural heritage remains in Eastern Germany, of course.
I wish but it's far from the reality. I'm afraid this won't be the last war in the "civilized" world. It's sad that some cf users are so eager to insult/hate each other. That should hint how some people can easily get swayed by emotions.
Blaming it all on Putin is convenient but his power relies on a lot of his friends. Also many people support the invasion here in Russia (30%? 50%? 70%? no idea). Some of those people lived during the Cold War, 90's. I can't possibly understand them. Of course I can be on a high horse and say that they're stupid and uncivilized but that won't solve anything.
On the topic of discussions. Maybe the conflict was inevitable: ideological, geopolitical, whatever reasons. People share their opinions but some opinions get ganged on. It sounds stupid saying "kids are dying how can you say something offensive to Ukraine". I think we should calmly listen to everyone, even braindead comments are at least entertaining. Right not I'm looking at the comment of aha..., it's at 0 right now but those types of comments usually gets downvoted. That's a valid question. I can't see how can anyone start an economic war with US (apart from China). People in US protested against different wars but it didn't seem to help. So no one can really pressure US gov. Average man won't send kind words to the citizens of a far away country unless everyone starts doing it. I can't invest myself into conflicts, e.g. in the Middle East (and Ukraine tbh), I think I'm no different to an average human.
P.S. Goverments of post soviet countries are corrupt af. I'm not really surprised with the current state. And also you shouldn't apply human morality standards to governments. There's absolutely no reason to start a war because people'll die. I mean, yeah, but if you're managing a country you won't think like this.
Btw aren't you afraid of growing power of NATO. Do you believe that regular people will be able to stop the war it may start? Is there a working democracy in the NATO countries?
Quite frankly: there is no reason to be afraid. Regarding European countries: democratic control is pretty strong here. Countries are very hesitant to join any military conflict, even peacekeeping missions against islamic terrorists in Africa are a great exception. I believe in the last (and perhaps only) such mission, German soldiers were only posted for education of the local army and were not allowed to engage in combat. And it was already cause for great debate nevertheless. As you've maybe seen in my original post, humanitarian principles also play a huge role in decision making. Germany especially will deliberate immensely before joining any conflict due to it's history, that I can guarantee. And war is bad for the global economy. Please note that EU countries also didn't join the Iraq invasion. Germany voted against it in the UN security council. Only the US and UK attacked.
With regard to the US: It is not for me to judge. Democracy is a bit volatile there currently. But I think they've learned a lot from the Iraq/Afghanistan disasters.
Of course, we also don't have any great motivation to grow our military. We really don't want this. In the past 30 years, German military has actually continuously been reduced in size and budget. We called it the 'peace dividend', we could finance other stuff instead that would increase the quality of life. Unfortunately, this has now been upended three days after Russia started the attack.
I would argue that most democratic goverments work somewhat more professional than a codeforces users ;) Also, because (unlike in Russia) it is almost never a single person that makes a decision. For example in Germany, any such decisions would have to be approved by all goverment parties (currently, that would be three parties), and each of these parties has some form of internal democracy to decide. So any use of the military can only happen if there is a really broad consensus amongst multiple hundered people that have a vote here. This preemts the scenario that a single supreme leader is acting upon bad information or with bad intentions.
Moreover, article 12 of our constitution states that no person can be forced to fight in a war, not even under martial law. So if soldiers are not convinced what they are fighting for, than they don't have to fight. This is an additional safeguard due to our horrible history.
So overall you see: nothing here is threatening. European countries — no threat.
> article 12 of our constitution states that no person can be forced to fight in a war, not even under martial law.
Extremely based.
I wasn't saying that there's a threat for European countries. Say your country decides to intervene into a conflict involving non-NATO country. And citizens don't want that. I see it's possible to prevent. Glad to know.
Okay, I've now been watching the upvotes/downvotes for your post, gnomina007, and for my answer continuously tick up (your post) and down (my post) in regular frequency for 3 minutes or so, going from roughly 0 to +50 and -50 in this time. Clearly, somebody is doing some extra work here to disrupt our exchange, which is actually just really sad. I feel pity for whoever is doing this, you obviously have so much to learn in this world. I don't think this will matter much, though. Every friendly and sincere comment here should receive the same attention, I think we all know that. Just for the record, I have upvoted your original comment, gnomina007.
Dude, i don't know why you are downvoted,i can swear you i am not retard to use bots for downvoting or anything like that. If anyone did this, i have 0 ideas why. I didn't even read your comment still, i came CF just now. Look at my contribution rofl, i am not the person who cares about it.
Don't worry, I didn't suspect for a second that this is you. Just pointing out that some weird stuff is going on here, I guess codeforces is getting many new users today :)
PS: I also feel like some people here vote up/down out of principle, to support 'their side'. Come on, this is not how a discussion works! Please give guys like gnomina007 who make civilized, thoughtful comments some more contribution in the future!
Given the lenght of my comment, it might actually be good when it is hidden at first, though :-)
This fast contribution changes are really strange. Maybe voting results are kinda postponed? Very weird stuff.
My guess is that the 50ish fake accounts have been deleted and their votes been removed. However, I think at this point we should simply be ignoring contribution altogether.
You are from Izhevsk. Wikipedia says that "Military industry remains the backbone of the local economy, with a number of enterprises operating in the city. By far the most important of these is Izhmash, which produces small arms and assault rifles popular both in Russia and abroad." Are wars just a good business opportunity for your city and did this affect your opinion?
The military industry of the USA is likely also secretly very happy about the war in Ukraine, because they can make a lot of money by selling weapons to the NATO countries in Europe. Maybe Putin thought that he was doing a great favour to the USA and now feels "betrayed"? But regardless of whether the USA profits or not, Putin is 100% responsible for the invasion and can't shift blame to anyone else.
WELL WRITTEN BRUH
When Israel invaded Palestine last year, no one on CF gave a damn about it.
This is not true. The only reason I would see why a blog got deleted is that it threatened or encouraged violence against some race / ethnic group. But otherwise, if you search either Palestine or Israel in the search bar you will find some results from a year ago, which invalidates your point.
Additionally, if you wanted to talk about Israel and Palestine, maybe create a new blog instead of branching off from the ongoing Ukrainian conflict against the Russian forces.
Double standards cannot be applied.
You noticed that too late, it's been 23 years. Nevertheless, I am pleased that you are ready to repent for the crimes of your country.
To my serbian brothers: we remember and do not forgive!
Hitler did not start any war The Jews themselves wanted this war. Everyone must accept that the Jews have done a lot of bad things for everyone so far. Of course, I do not mean all of them.
They have had problems with the Aryans since the beginning of history. They celebrate every year on a day that commemorates the day when millions of people were killed in Iran during the Achaemenid period. (However, they themselves define that there was no killing) Of course, Judaism is just one religion, and I do not mean everyone. It is good and bad in everything. But it is not right to portray Hitler as a devil. Every year, the United States and Israel spend a lot of money to portray Hitler as a devil. It is not clear to them what they want and what they are doing. But what is clear is that now all the rulers of the world are Jewish. (And we see the state of the world NOW :D) In general, this is not something that can be explained much.
Countries like Britain and Russia have done a lot of bad things since the beginning of history, killing millions and looting so many lands. It is funny that people do not see the great oppression of Britain, Russia, etc., and only hate Hitler. This is the power of the media :D
Do not be so prejudiced, think for yourself and do not believe what you see in the news. Yes, they celebrate the massacre of millions of Iranians every year. They occupied a country and thousands of children died of starvation and poverty in Palestine. Your media does not show this. Palestine is in a very bad situation (although a group of Jews oppose it). Do you not see what injustices the United States, Britain, Russia, etc. did? Hitler did bad things, but what these countries did is hundreds of times worse. Wake Up
Sir, why are you necroposting, sir?
This is such a terrible and repugnant thing to say. And, very obviously, anti-Semitic. It is impossible to leave this here unanswered.
Please let me explain to you how Hitler — and millions of Germans who followed him — have carried out what can only be described as pure and unfathomable evil. Perhaps you will find this message convincing, since it comes from the country of the perpetrators.
I have visited a concentration camp twice. I've been to Buchenwald and to Dachau. The latter camp is only 10 kilometres away from where I was born. It is the darkest place on earth. If you ever visit such a place, you will remember every single detail of it for the rest your life. It will be imprinted deeply on your mind forever. No matter how evil you think humans can be — the history of these places teaches us that they can go far beyond anything. Jewish people — for no other reason than their descent — have been dehumanized there. They have been subjugated and tortured with unbearable gruesomeness. They were treated like cattle and much worse. They have been robbed of all their belongings, of their clothes and of their names and identity and were only addressed by numbers, which were painfully engraved in their skin. Virtually every possible way to degrade and harm people has been exercised there by prison guards with unlimited power over human lives, who have not only willingly participated in these depraved acts, but in many cases gained joy from their own brutality. And they were killed. In systematic fashion and over the course of many years, with the goal to eliminate them all. Between 1941 and 1945, six million Jews were systematically murdered, around two-thirds of Europe's Jewish population.
So don't you dare to deny what cannot be denied. I've seen some of the crime scenes with my own eyes. It exceeds any comparison and any imagination. These concentration camps are warnings to future generation about the abyss of the human soul that can become reality when the varnish of civilization gets lost. We must never forget.
Hitler started the war on September 1, 1939, when he invaded Poland for no other reason than to gain power and territory and a pervert feeling of superiority. And Jewish people had absolutely nothing to do with that. When your leaders spew such heinous lies, it is likely because they need an enemy to blame for their own failures and their own bottomless incompetence.
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You are living proof that there are people in the world who think that literally everyone else in the world is planning a conspiracy against you and is hiding the truth from you. You are defending one of the murderous and damned people in history, while obviously spreading hatred on the Internet. How low can it further go?
Notice, I just said that what Hitler did is not less than what Britain, Russia, the United States, etc. did. I did not support Hitler.
No you did not say that you supported Hitler, but you are portraying Hitler as the victim, using the United States and Russia to cover up literal genocide. Hitler was in control of Germany the entire time that the holocaust happened, so you really can't compare them. The United States didn't ethnically wipe out 6 million people by executing them and putting them in concentration camps just because they didn't like what they looked like. Hitler is multitudes times worse.
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Hi alinazarigh. I believe you're still quite lost here. But maybe I can help.
Perhaps you actually want to make the point that the way various powers have tried to influence the fate of Iran and of other countries during the cold war was wrong — I would agree with you there. I have to admit that I am not an expert on Persian history, but my understanding of the war between Iraq and Iran is that Saddam Hussein started the war mainly out of opportunistic motivation. This is evil and despicable — unfortunately, dictators tend to act this way, which also is the reason for this blog post. It certainly was a terrible, devastating war that should be condemned unequivocally. It is absurd to claim that this war was 'imposed' on Iraq. But it certainly seems to be right that various countries, including Germany, did not manage to prevent or end the war, in many cases even equipping both sides with arms. I assume their intention was to keep the balance of power between Iraq and Iran — during the cold war, geostrategic motivations unfortunately often trumped humanitarian motivations and the motivation of people to choose their own destiny.
These all seem to be valid points, which you are welcome to make. However, this gives you no right to spread vile anti-Semitic hatred. You said about the second world war: "The Jews themselves wanted this war". This is as disgusting and despicable as it gets. I hope you will never ever repeat such appalling statements.
PS: This article might shake your world view.
It's true that no country is without sin, but did "Britain, Russia, the United States, etc." do the horrors that Germany did? They did not have such atrocious "ethnic cleansing" campaigns, nor did they start the bloodiest war in history (killing tens of millions and affecting hundreds of millions). And the murders which Hitler did were only a fraction of what he wanted to do... By saying that the Nazi regime was no worse than other countries, you are greatly underestimating Hitler's crimes against humanity.
Although I'm trash at politics, I still had to say that this is bullshit and largely Nazi propaganda.
Some basic history knowledge tells you that 'Aryans' actually mean 'Indian-European people' (or something like that). It actually has nothing to do with the stuff that the Nazis said. The Nazis made this out of nowhere.
Hitler is no devil
If you are one of those Jews who are massacred or imprisoned in a concentration camp, what will you think? People's lives are more important than anything else. Same goes for the Ukraine issue. Politics aside, Putin is doing wrong for starting a war and killing innocent people.
I don't think I said anything about Putin (actually I hate him). Are you guys reading my comments or just skip to the end!? Such a terrible people we living with :(
I used to think that Don't Look Up movie was a little exaggerated. But now that I look at it, it's really the whole truth!
enough. enough. Every year there is a movie about Hitler's crimes. Every time you look, you see that they are talking about Hitler! How long do you want to close your eyes on the current crimes, the crimes of the Jews, etc. and just talk about Hitler?