Z0RR0's blog

Making sure one is participating in codeforces round !
By Z0RR0, history, 9 years ago, In English

This might not be a real matter of concern but specially in Div1 contests a lot of contestants do not submit anything if they are not able to solve any problem. Last round(round #317) their was an opportunity to get t-shirts and top 200 is quite achievable if it is a lucky day for you. So,normally you would expect a lot of contestants in that contest. But their was less than 700 participants. The round was really a tough round and I think more than 300 people were there who tried but could not solve any,thus they do not submit any. It is quite disappointing for them who solved some and would get better rating if they all attended as they went zero solve in that contest.

Again,In some contests participants usually try for B rather than A because solving only A would not boost his rating.And when they can not solve B then they do not submit any. This is looking quite disappointing to me. So, I am asking if it is possible to make any system that one has to make sure that he is rated for this contest either he submits any or not and it is at the very beginning of the contest ? If you do not make sure at the very beginning then you are not rated for the contest. People can not even cheat with another account because they have to make sure at the beginning of the contest if they are attending or not. In few initial minutes they will not be able to decide if they can manage to solve that task they decide. So actually one has to be predetermined if he is really attending the contest or not.

If someone can not manage to prepare any solution to submit for any problem why would he want to make lower his ratings (Although I saw one of my friend got WA on testcase1,problem A because he tried the whole contest and can not generate any solution and he wrote that he did not deserve to be in div1) ! But the fact is he deserves the lower rating and one who solves deserves higher rating as there would be more participants. So,is it possible to do something to make sure that one is participating ?

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9 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +61 Vote: I do not like it

you touched me :3

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9 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +38 Vote: I do not like it

Absolutely agree with you!
But, be ready to be downvoted by pseudo-reds and pseudo-oranges, who intensively uses this option as a part of strategy :) I see the only two ways to reach the fairness:
OR Registered and not submitted anything should be considered as "participated";
OR Add special button "Confirm Participation" before the contest, which is blocked just after the round beginning, pressing it considers as "participated" and not pressing doesn't allow to view round problems;
P.S.: did you read this post? :)

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    9 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +10 Vote: I do not like it

    I have read it just now :) . Sometimes we can not attend the contest although we registered before. I think "Confirm Participation" is probably the best thing we can ask for.

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    9 years ago, # ^ |
    ← Rev. 4   Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

    So... you suggest that anyone makes one additional purple div1 account? Won't work, at least not as well as you'd hope. (I just realised this is an easy way to cheat in TC...)

    The first option isn't very good either — if I lose Internet access an hour before a contest, why should I lose 100+ rating points?

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      9 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it -8 Vote: I do not like it

      Please read the second suggestion carefully: the main idea brings to making another account is useless. Because the supposed "Confirmation" is possible before the round beginning only.

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        9 years ago, # ^ |
        ← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +16 Vote: I do not like it

        Oh. In that case, if can't attend the round for the first 5 minutes (I was once running down a snowy slope to not miss a contest), is it fair to deny me participation? (protip: not really)

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          9 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it -13 Vote: I do not like it

          I don't know if it would be fair for you. But in that case the rules will be common for all.

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            9 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it +16 Vote: I do not like it

            The rules are always the same for all, that's totally not the point.

            If people can skip a contest after reading problems, that's kinda bad sometimes (I did use that yesterday, since my strategy of "solve A quickly, then eat" failed and I had to modify it to "eat while it's not cold"). If I have to make sure no unfortunate coincidence in my plans happens that'd deny me Internet access for a few minutes... well, that's one of the few things for which I'd reconsider participating in a contest. Unless it's onsite :D. Eduroam broke for a few minutes before the round? FML. Train delays? FML. What am I going to do in the 2+ hours I had allocated? The way contests are now, I can comfortably afford small fails and make combos with my plans, and I like that. Algorithm competitions. (Strategy games.) Efficiency. They're connected.

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              9 years ago, # ^ |
              ← Rev. 3   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

              Train delays?

              I had the similar situation in TC SRM: could get at home only in 3 minutes before round beginning, just after the registration end. As we know, it is impossible to register for the round outside the "java arena applet" and there are no way to run this applet on the android cell phone. Was it unfair for me? I think NO! Because everyone is equal under the rules.
              Why are you bother about "Confirmation button", which ends at contest beginning, but don't abuse the "Registration", which ends five minutes before the contest?

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                9 years ago, # ^ |
                ← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +8 Vote: I do not like it

                Because I can register a long time ahead and it doesn't count me as a participant if I don't even see the problems in the end. There is a difference.

                I could register ahead of time and take a risk, sure. But that has backfired on me way too many times. I want something that allows all these situations after registering ahead of time:

                1. I wait an hour before the contest behind the computer, just reading comics or something

                2. I barely make it in time before the contest

                3. I don't make it in time, being a few minutes late; no matter

                4. fail, I have no Internet access during the contest — and nothing of value was lost

                Plus, TC arena is old and stupid overall.

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                9 years ago, # ^ |
                  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

                Have you seen https://arena.topcoder.com. I have used it in some rounds. It was mostly fine, but I lost my code during one of the rounds. It is worth trying if you are not too worried about rating.

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                  9 years ago, # ^ |
                    Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

                  I have. I also lost my code there sometimes, that's why I don't use it.

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          9 years ago, # ^ |
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          This is why I suggested for keeping that button for few initial minutes too as it is hard for someone to make sure in that very short time if he can solve his desired problem.

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          9 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

          In TC period for registration is so short that we could as well consider it as suggested solution here :P. I already missed few TC contests, because I was late one minute for registration or sth like that xd.

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    9 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    The idea of Confirm Participation button is good, but I don't get the reason beyond not pressing doesn't allow to view round problems. Why shouldn't they view problems during the contest? If they don't press they can't submit after all!

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      9 years ago, # ^ |
      ← Rev. 3   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      Exactly. It's all against of cheating.
      If you don't participate, you can wait the round finish to view the problem.

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        9 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        I want to remind you current situation: those who don't register for a contest are allowed to view but not submit. So, can they cheat anyhow by reading the problems only?

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          9 years ago, # ^ |
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          They don't cheat.. maybe.. But I don't see a huge problem, if they had no possibility to view the problem during the contest.

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      9 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

      On TC it's like that and nobody has problems with that.

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9 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -23 Vote: I do not like it

Sorry, but I can't agree with this.

At first rating isn't too important. If someone doesn't do contests for rating, then he/she loses.

The second, I don't do a lot of contest soon. I like to see tasks, standings, find some corner case for hacking... The last 3-4 times, I didn't open Pascal/C++ for coding.

Also, sometimes I solve first task in 10-15 minutes and after that I must code it for 20-30 minutes and I have good idea for B task but I decide to go on basketball (summer, I work big number of competitions, I am preparing some tasks and I don't learn C++ so well).

For bigger number of participants in div 1 contests I think CF should change a few rules. But it isn't big deal, everybody has a chance to participate and that is enough.

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    9 years ago, # ^ |
    ← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    Yes,everyone has a chance to participate and also div1 contestants participate in div2 contests as unrated. I am only saying that one should confirm at the beginning of the contest that he is ready to participate as rated. Anybody can see and solve the problems and also their rank can be seen in standings but unofficially.

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9 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +89 Vote: I do not like it

Probably the simplest solution is to make sure Div1 A is easy enough for everyone to solve. You might still find people going for B only but I think that is a lot rarer.

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    9 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +14 Vote: I do not like it

    Yep. In addition, making div1A easy enough means div1A would be easy enough (as in, it'd probably make a more balanced contest).

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    9 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -6 Vote: I do not like it

    As extreme case.. "A+B"-like problem for 125 points in addition to standard DIV1 problems. A rough way to arrange the participants, who could not solve anything else. :)

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      9 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +17 Vote: I do not like it

      What's the point in divisions if div. 1 participants have problems as easy as div. 2 A or B? I think, the problem is not in difficulty of div. 1 A, but in border between divisions. IMHO, it should be raised to at least 2000. Then most people will be able to solve at least one problem in their division.

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9 years ago, # |
← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -36 Vote: I do not like it

I think everyone who registered for a contest ( DIV1 or DIV2 ) must have a rating change. Then every contestant will be aware of getting lower rating thus try heart & soul to attend the contest. And if he won't attending then why getting registered!!! Electricity problem or Internet access problem is a lame excuse I think, because I believe... If there is a will there is a way :-)

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